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Menu Install the app Install Home Featured Forums Trending Search forums What's new New posts Latest activity Discussion Nvidia Blackwell in Q1-2025 Thread starter Tigerick Start date Sep 6, 2023 Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.You should upgrade or use an alternative browser. T Tigerick Senior member Apr 1, 2022 942 859 106 Here comes the thread for discussion of all future Blackwell GPU family, aka RTX 5000 series. We also know about codename of all 4 die sizes; namely GB202, GB203, GB205 and GB206. Below is the table with some speculations of my own, you guys are welcome to pitch in:- I also put in upcoming RDNA5 just for comparison sake... CodenamePossible Model NumberPossible Memory ConfigurationGB2025090512-bit 32 GB GDDR7GB203256-bit 24 GB GDDR75080256-bit 16 GB GDDR75070 Ti256-bit 16 GB GDDR7GB205RTX 5070192-bit 12 GB GDDR7RTX 5060 Ti128-bit 8 GB GDDR7 Mobile GPUCodenameSMMemoryTDPMobile GPUCodenameSMMemoryTDPRTX 4090AD1037616GB G6175WRTX 5090GB2038224GB G7150WRTX 4080AD1045812GB G6175WRTX 5080GB2036016GB G7150WRTX 5070 TiGB2054612GB G7115WRTX 4070AD106368GB G6140WRTX 5070GB205368GB G7100WRTX 4060AD107248GB G6140WRTX 5060GB2068GB G7RTX 4050AD107206GB G6140WRTX 5050GB206 As for amount of CUDA cores, nVidia is changing the architecture of Blackwell GPU, so far no leaks about structure of new Shader Model...However, we should be expecting at least 50% performance improvement due to extra 50% memory bandwidth improvement... Update 1: ModelCodenameDie Size (mm2)SM/CUCUDA/L2 CacheMemoryMemory BWBW +/-TPU PerfRTX 3090TiGA10262884107526 MB384-bit 24GB GDDR6X1 TB/sRTX 4090AD1026091281638472 MB384-bit 24GB GDDR6X1 TB/s+ 0%+ 45%RTX 5090GB202?170?112 MB ?512-bit 32GB GDDR71.79 TB/s+ 79%?RTX 3080TiGA10262880102406 MB384-bit 12GB GDDR6X912.4 GB/sRTX 4080AD10337976972864 MB256-bit 16GB GDDR6X716 GB/s+33%RTX 4080 SuperAD103379801024064 MB256-bit 16GB GDDR6X736.3 GB/s+3%+2%RTX 5080GB203?84?64 MB256-bit 16GB GDDR7960 GB/s+30%?RTX 3080GA1026286887045 MB320-bit 10GB GDDR6X760.3 GB/sRTX 4070TiAD10429460768048 MB192-bit 12GB GDDR6X504.2 GB/s- 34%+ 17%RTX 4070Ti SuperAD10337966884848 MB256-bit 16GB GDDR6X672.3 GB/s+ 33%+9%RTX 5070TiGB203708960256-bit 16GB GDDR7896 GB/s+33%RTX 3070TiGA1043924861444 MB256-bit 8GB GDDR6X608.3 GB/sRTX 4070AD10429446588836 MB192-bit 12GB GDDR6X504.2 GB/s- 17%+ 14%RTX 4070 SuperAD10429456716848 MB192-bit 12GB GDDR6X504.2 GB/s0%+ 16%RTX 5070GB205?48614448 MB192-bit 12GB GDDR7672 GB/s+ 33%?RTX 3060TiGA1043923848644 MB256-bit 8GB GDDR6448 GB/sRTX 4060TiAD10618834435232 MB128-bit 8/16 GB GDDR6288 GB/s- 36%+ 11%RTX 5060TiGB205???32 MB ?128-bit 8GB GDDR7448 GB/s ???RTX 3060GA1062762835843 MB192-bit 12GB GDDR6360 GB/sRTX 4060AD10715924307224 MB128-bit 8GB GDDR6272 GB/s- 25%+ 18%RTX 5060GB206?24-36 ??? MB128-bit 8GB GDDR7? GB/s??RX 6750 XTNavi 2233540256096 MB192-bit 12GB GDDR6432 GB/sRX 7800 XTNavi 3234660384064 MB256-bit 16GB GDDR6620.8 GB/s+ 44%+ 40%RX 9070XTNavi 48300 ?64 ?4096 ?256-bit 16GB GDDR6640 GB/s? Last edited: Jan 28, 2025 Reactions: Praj, cutepixel, Mopetar and 3 others A Ajay Lifer Jan 8, 2001 16,094 8,116 136 Tigerick said: With Kopite7kimi pretty much confirm the 512-bit memory bus interface of upcoming Blackwell GPU, here comes the thread for discussion of all future Blackwell GPU family, aka RTX 5000 series. We also know about codename of all 5 die sizes; namely GB202, GB203, GB205, GB206 and GB207. Below is the table with some speculations of my own, you guys are welcome to pitch in:- I also put in upcoming RDNA5 just for comparison sake... https://twitter.com/x/status/1684497812921147392 CodenamePossible Model NumberPossible Memory ConfigurationPossible Mobile GPUPossible AMD's responseGB2025090 Ti512-bit 32GB5090448-bit 28GBGB2035080 Ti384-bit 24GBN51 384-bit 24GB GDDR75080320-bit 20GBN51 320-bit 20GB GDDR7GB2055070 Ti256-bit 16GB256-bit 16GB GDDR6N52 256-bit 16GB GDDR7GB2065070192-bit 12GB192-bit 12GB GDDR6N52 192-bit 12GB GDDR7GB2075060128-bit 8/16 GB128-bit 8GB GDDR6N43/N44/N53 ???5050128-bit 8GB Even though we know nVidia will implement 512-bit memory bus, we don't know what types of memory they will choose, I try to list down all possibility of memory choices below: 384-bit GDDR6(X)384-bit GDDR7512-bit GDDR7512-bit GDDR6XRTX 409024GB 21Gbps 1TB/s24GB 32Gbps 1.5TB/s32GB 32Gbps 2TB/s32GB 24Gbps 1.5TB/s+ 50%+ 100%+ 50%Pros Lower TDP due to GDDR7's lower voltage Extra 50% bandwidth Lower TDP due to GDDR7's lower voltage Bigger memory size Double the memory bandwidth Bigger memory size Extra 50% bandwidth Cheaper to source Cons More expensive than GDDR6x Highest BOM More layers PCB to accommodate 16 pcs memory chips More layers PCB to accommodate 16 pcs memory chips Highest TDP AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX24GB 20Gbps 960GB/s24GB 32Gbps 1.5TB/s+ 60% There was rumored about usage of 384-bit GDDR7 memory before, I believe nVidia is testing both 384-bit GDDR7 and 512-bit GDDR6x and then decide to use GDDR6x options. Both memories have same bandwidth even though inteface is different. Hmm, it seems to me usage of GDDR6x make more sense compared to GDDR7, what do you think??? As for amount of CUDA cores, nVidia is changing the architecture of Blackwell GPU, so far no leaks about structure of new Shader Model...However, we should be expecting at least 50% performance improvement due to extra 50% memory bandwidth improvement... Click to expand... Since the release date is somewhere in 2025 - I think GDDR7 is highly probable - at least for GB102 based GFX AIBs. Power consumption per Gb is a bit high on the current gen of GDDR7, but, at least with Samsung, there is a gen2 in the works that will use less power per Gb (not sure if this is from a process change, or an implementation change). As for everything else - who knows, well, who knows that can talk! No details on uarch changes, CCs, SMs, RT cores, etc. The one thing that's clear, given current trends, is that you better be prepared to sell one of your children to buy the top SKU! Reactions: Executor_ C CakeMonster Golden Member Nov 22, 2012 1,669 845 136 I don't feel qualified to guess at all, but right now I just hope for better memory bandwidth as well as a top card with 32GB, just for hobbyist AI stuff. If more AI progress is made, those will no doubt be useful in all sorts of cool stuff we can hardly imagine now. For gaming, I frankly have no idea, as various upscaling and frame generation technologies don't necessarily scale with the same specs that raster did before, and those are taking over so hardware support for features unknown as of now might be more impactful. I can't imagine there would be a gaming need for >24GB even if it releases in 2025, but I'll of course be happy to take the headroom if the price isn't more than a 4090.. Edit: Also, given CPU limitation rearing its head these days for those with 4090s, we might have different wish list specs for 50xx series depending on how CPU's perform when we're closer to release, as both AMD and Intel actual next gen (not just refresh) should be out by then. Reactions: Tlh97 M Mopetar Diamond Member Jan 31, 2011 8,535 7,800 136 If I had to guess it's unlikely that the consumer card will get the full bus. The (mostly) uncut cards are going into the data center. Consumer cards are the salvage parts and with a bus that big it's getting cut down. Reactions: CP5670, Tlh97 and VirtualLarry A Ajay Lifer Jan 8, 2001 16,094 8,116 136 Mopetar said: If I had to guess it's unlikely that the consumer card will get the full bus. The (mostly) uncut cards are going into the data center. Consumer cards are the salvage parts and with a bus that big it's getting cut down. Click to expand... Datacenter? Hope not, that would be lame (though I guess some of that is currently happening with the 4090). Workstation cards will be built off the top two chips - so there could be a supply problem. We'll just have to see what Nvidia's wafer allotment is. M MoogleW Member May 1, 2022 107 54 71 Mopetar said: If I had to guess it's unlikely that the consumer card will get the full bus. The (mostly) uncut cards are going into the data center. Consumer cards are the salvage parts and with a bus that big it's getting cut down. Click to expand... If by datacenter you mean Quadro then you're like right, although that doesn't matter since they typically seem to target same performace but Quadro relies on achieving the same with more hardware while consumer does so with higher clocks. Like 4090 vs rtx A6000 Ada. 4090 often outperforms despite less hardware but A6000 ada is more efficient and in a smaller footprint I have been wondering why there are dozens of pages of RDNA4 and CDNA3 but absolutely no discussion of GB100 and GB102/202 Last edited: Sep 7, 2023 A Ajay Lifer Jan 8, 2001 16,094 8,116 136 MoogleW said: I have been wondering why there are dozens of pages of RDNA4 and CDNA3 but absolutely no discussion of GB100 and GB102/202 Click to expand... Probably because Nvidia has been very tight lipped on this and is successful keeping info out of leakers hands for now. Reactions: A/// J jpiniero Lifer Oct 1, 2010 17,246 7,621 136 I think the reason that GB202 has 512-bit is mainly for Quadro (ie: they want more memory capacity) but maybe they will do a Titan as well. It would not surprise me if they slash the L2 cache size because of N3E's lack of SRAM scaling... and really on the lower models it also wouldn't surprise me if they also cut the memory controller count too. GDDR7 is likely not going to be cheap either. ie: GB202 512-bit GB203 320-bit GB205 192-bit GB206 128-bit GB207 128-bit (or less) A Ajay Lifer Jan 8, 2001 16,094 8,116 136 jpiniero said: I think the reason that GB202 has 512-bit is mainly for Quadro (ie: they want more memory capacity) but maybe they will do a Titan as well. It would not surprise me if they slash the L2 cache size because of N3E's lack of SRAM scaling... and really on the lower models it also wouldn't surprise me if they also cut the memory controller count too. GDDR7 is likely not going to be cheap either. Click to expand... Lack of SRAM scaling isn't a reason to cut it. It could be a reason for not increasing it. I'll just take up a larger portion of the GPU - though changes are coming even to consumer GPUs that will move 'uncore' stuff out of the rendering core. It's a necessity, if for no other reason than high NA EUV will reduce reticle sizes (and of course, improving yields). Reactions: Executor_ J jpiniero Lifer Oct 1, 2010 17,246 7,621 136 Ajay said: Lack of SRAM scaling isn't a reason to cut it. It could be a reason for not increasing it. I'll just take up a larger portion of the GPU - though changes are coming even to consumer GPUs that will move 'uncore' stuff out of the rendering core. It's a necessity, if for no other reason than high NA EUV will reduce reticle sizes (and of course, improving yields). Click to expand... I'm expecting die sizes to be cut (other than GB202) to compensate for the higher costs of N3E and GDDR7. A Ajay Lifer Jan 8, 2001 16,094 8,116 136 jpiniero said: I'm expecting die sizes to be cut (other than GB202) to compensate for the higher costs of N3E and GDDR7. Click to expand... Fair enough as speculation. Unfortunately, crystal balls aren't real T Tigerick Senior member Apr 1, 2022 942 859 106 jpiniero said: I'm expecting die sizes to be cut (other than GB202) to compensate for the higher costs of N3E and GDDR7. Click to expand... That's why I think NV will use higher-bus of GDDR6X instead of more expensive GDDR7 on Blackwell GPU to counter upcoming RDNA5 with GDDR7. With GDDR6X, NV might be able to offer GB203 and GB205 with performance increase while maintaining current pricing... Current RTX4080 with 256-bit GDDR6X offers similar raster performance than 7900XTX with 384-bit GDDR6. We might see another round of NV magic Last edited: Sep 7, 2023 A Ajay Lifer Jan 8, 2001 16,094 8,116 136 Tigerick said: That's why I think NV will use higher-bus of GDDR6X instead of more expensive GDDR7 on Blackwell GPU to counter upcoming RDNA5 with GDDR7. With GDDR6X, NV might be able to offer GB203 and GB205 with performance increase while maintaining current pricing... Current RTX4080 with 256-bit GDDR6X offers similar raster performance than 7900XTX with 384-bit GDDR6. We might see another round of NV magic Click to expand... Nvidia has always pushed the memory for its GPUs to the max. They won't bother with saving a bit of money. These are going to be very expensive GFX AIBs - no need to cut corners. Reactions: A/// J jpiniero Lifer Oct 1, 2010 17,246 7,621 136 Ajay said: Nvidia has always pushed the memory for its GPUs to the max. They won't bother with saving a bit of money. These are going to be very expensive GFX AIBs - no need to cut corners. Click to expand... nVidia is more likely to use less chips, esp assuming there's a capacity increase. Which will help defray the cost increase at the expense of reducing the bandwidth increase (of course). At 3 GB/chip, 128-bit becomes 12 GB and 192-bit becomes 18 GB. A Ajay Lifer Jan 8, 2001 16,094 8,116 136 jpiniero said: nVidia is more likely to use less chips, esp assuming there's a capacity increase. Which will help defray the cost increase at the expense of reducing the bandwidth increase (of course). At 3 GB/chip, 128-bit becomes 12 GB and 192-bit becomes 18 GB. Click to expand... If that's the case GB202 512-bit and GB203 320-bit could have insane amounts of memory. So, probably just the GPUs with narrow busses? D dr1337 Senior member May 25, 2020 549 837 136 Where's the 2025 rumor coming from? Nvidia has had a strong 2 year cadence going for almost a decade and I'd be really surprised if they broke it now. A Ajay Lifer Jan 8, 2001 16,094 8,116 136 dr1337 said: Where's the 2025 rumor coming from? Nvidia has had a strong 2 year cadence going for almost a decade and I'd be really surprised if they broke it now. Click to expand... I believe it was @adroc_thurston who mentioned it (for NV). Not sure why. Wafer shortage because of G(H)100/200 - though I thought the problem was packaging (CoWoS)?? adroc_thurston Diamond Member Jul 2, 2023 8,868 11,602 106 Ajay said: Not sure why. Click to expand... New SM hard. Reactions: Tlh97 and Ajay M MoogleW Member May 1, 2022 107 54 71 dr1337 said: Where's the 2025 rumor coming from? Nvidia has had a strong 2 year cadence going for almost a decade and I'd be really surprised if they broke it now. Click to expand... According to RedGaminTech Nvidia is 'breaking tradition' with its SM design, he also mentioned an improved TPC design scaled down from the H100 design (DSMEM) that reduces trips to L2 cache (but was seemingly shelved for Lovelace or was always meant for rtx 50) so that could factor. Another could be bugs that require further efforts. Last but not least, Nvidia could be waiting for 3nm to mature a bit more for more performance or less cost As for source of the leak, its an interpretation of a slide Weiterleitungshinweis K KompuKare Golden Member Jul 28, 2009 1,236 1,611 136 MoogleW said: Last but not least, Nvidia could be waiting for 3nm to mature a bit more for more performance or less cost Click to expand... The interval between new nodes certainly has slowed down. Now for Ada (aside from the xx90 models), that doesn't matter that much as all the rest are small enough that on the present node they have plenty of scope not just for a refresh but actually a second generation. Hence the performance stagnation at most tiers. What was surprising about AD102 was that it was so big. Better for sales this generation, but even +20% above 3090 Ti would have sold. 600mm² doesnn't leave them much of option but to move to a new node. BW102 maybe 450mm² 3nm, with an BW101 at around 600mm² but with no intention to launch a gaming card with the latter? That might make sense (for Nvidia). My feeling is that from now on node progression well be trickled out. Well, unless the calculation is that a rival might use that to get ahead, so something like a big BW101 die might be their answer. Last edited: Sep 11, 2023 J jpiniero Lifer Oct 1, 2010 17,246 7,621 136 If that CoWoS shortage talk is legit, it wouldn't surprise me if GB202's main purpose is to be a GDDR7 compute product. May not be suitable for gaming. But if it is, it's going to be very expensive (ie: Titan only) M Mopetar Diamond Member Jan 31, 2011 8,535 7,800 136 KompuKare said: What was surprising about AD102 was that it was so big. Better for sales this generation, but even +20% above 3090 Ti would have sold. 600mm² doesnn't leave them much of option but to move to a new node. Click to expand... Reticle limit is 858 mm^2 so there's room to grow. We've seen this in the past where NVidia has two generations on the same node. Smaller designs in the first generation mean better yields and room to grow. By the time the second generation goes into production the process should be mature enough to support the bigger dies. The big die might be restricted to professional and data center users. Even the 4090 is pretty cut down and since AMD is t offering anything that can match NVidia on performance there's not much incentive to release another card above that. It's possible we get more resources on a slightly smaller die for a 5090 just because it isn't as cut down. NVidia has options, but a lot of what gets sold and under what label depends on what the alternatives look like at the time or what NVidia is predicting the competition to have. J jpiniero Lifer Oct 1, 2010 17,246 7,621 136 Mopetar said: Reticle limit is 858 mm^2 so there's room to grow. We've seen this in the past where NVidia has two generations on the same node. Smaller designs in the first generation mean better yields and room to grow. By the time the second generation goes into production the process should be mature enough to support the bigger dies. Click to expand... I had kind of wondered if nVidia would do a respin of Ada to N4P (?) and throw in GDDR7. Wouldn't be any smaller but perhaps slightly higher clock speeds and any performance gains they can get from the higher bandwidth. M Mopetar Diamond Member Jan 31, 2011 8,535 7,800 136 I think there's some confusion over their process node. They've decided to call their custom set of stuff 4N, but it's not the same as TSMC's N4 nodes. I could see them changing anyway even if it doesn't get them any extra density. The power or performance boost is usually worth it. J jpiniero Lifer Oct 1, 2010 17,246 7,621 136 Mopetar said: I think there's some confusion over their process node. They've decided to call their custom set of stuff 4N, but it's not the same as TSMC's N4 nodes. I could see them changing anyway even if it doesn't get them any extra density. The power or performance boost is usually worth it. Click to expand... It doesn't appear they are doing any sort of Ada refresh. You must log in or register to reply here. 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